In Defense Of "Asian Values"

By Terry McCarthy/Singapore

TIME: Is Zhu Rongji the only one who can reform China's economy?

Lee Kuan Yew: If not for him, it would be more difficult to do it. He not only has the determination, the willingness and the readiness to knock heads and get unpleasant things done, he also has the experience of the last four years in getting inflation down. No one else can rival his grasp of the overall picture and the details.

TIME: Does the Asian economic crisis play into his hands by giving him added authority for economic reform?

Lee: I would hesitate to give a straight yes to that. After what has happened in East Asia, China may decide that in the midst of all this turmoil, they should do this in gradual stages and not take excessive risk. The original plans must have included raising capital in the Hong Kong stock exchange--red chips. That is not feasible for some time. If capital is not forthcoming, new management will also be absent, because Hong Kong was going to be the conduit of capital and management expertise. He cannot proceed at the same pace.

TIME: Do you like him?

Lee: I'm not sure he is a man you like or dislike. He is a man you respect or don't respect, and I respect him. And I think this is a commitment of the whole leadership.

TIME: Wall Street seems to be in complete denial about the fallout from Asia.

Lee: They can't pretend that all is well, but the total impact won't be known until the end of the year.

TIME: What do you think of the way the U.S. has handled the problem in Indonesia?

Lee: It is difficult to say whether the balance is right. Perhaps the U.S. should have got more actively involved earlier. Now the risks have become evident. The risks derive from a market which is increasingly skeptical at the way the (IMF) conditions are implemented.

TIME: Some in Asia believe that the U.S. engineered this currency crisis to get into markets that were closed to it.

Lee: This is the mood of the moment, a sense of anguish at the sudden loss of prosperity and status, but if you don't want foreign investment, if you don't want foreign expertise, then you are going to take longer to recover.

TIME: Do you regret the prominence that has been given to "Asian values"?

Lee: The prominence has been given by Western journalists, particularly democracy and human-rights activists, who believe we should be completely like them. I have tried to explain we have a different historical background and different social values. These different values have made for fast growth. The collapse has come about because of a lack of systems, especially "the rule of law." If it is Asian values that brought about this disaster, how come Hong Kong and Singapore have not been affected?

There are certain weaknesses in Confucianism. From time to time in the history of China, whenever there was weak government, Confucianism led to nepotism and favoritism. Conscious of that, we have established checks through an open, transparent system, where aberrations can be spotted, highlighted and checked. Unfortunately, quite a few of the countries that have been growing fast have this incestuous system where banks are owned by conglomerates and lend money to another section in the group without proper feasibility studies.

TIME: Some say the reason there is bribery and corruption is "Asian values."

Lee: The difference between being a trustee and being an owner is a fundamental one. You owe a duty to your family and loyalty to your friends, to help and support them. But you must do that from your private resources, not public resources. That's Confucianism. But this value is degraded when you use public resources through your official position to do your duty to your family and be loyal to your friends. That is wrong, and what we guard against.

TIME: But this is the Western way of doing business.

Lee: If it is the best way of doing business, it doesn't matter where it comes from. All durable cultures must uphold honesty, otherwise a society will not survive. If dishonesty is admired, a society must break up. The easiest way to stop corruption is to have the minimum of opportunities for public officers to exercise discretion. So have open rules. One of the most difficult things to establish is a culture hostile to corruption. Once you accept that the policeman can stop you on the road for an alleged traffic violation and you must slip him $2 or $5 to settle it, you are in for very serious trouble.

TIME: Has the Japanese role in Asia's crisis been disappointing?

Lee: There is a certain inertia in the Japanese system. It has been a successful system. They are conservative by nature until they run up against a wall. It takes some time to forge a new consensus that something has to be done, and new directions agreed. Then the samurais go to the shogun, and off they go. I don't know how long this will take.